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Author's Note: Danielle Cormack is best known to Xena viewers as the Amazon Ephiny, whose character debuted in HOOVES AND HARLOTS (#10). But also in the Xenaverse, Danielle Cormack played the "Chartreuse Fox"/Lady Marie in the Hercules: The Legendary Journeys episode LES CONTEMPTIBLES (#H53). An accomplished actress on stage and screen before and since her Ephiny role, Whoosh! was fortunate enough to catch up with Ms. Cormack via telephone on June 5, 1997 and ask her some questions. She had just returned from Cannes, promoting a recent film in which she had a starring role, only to find her house had been burglarized in her absence. Amidst the attendant chaos of strangers in the house and caring for her new baby, she still graciously took time to answer questions and talk about her work, past, present, and future.
Actress Danielle Cormack, sans leather.
Topless Women (01-10)
High Tide (11-20)
Early Career (21-25)
Getting The Role Of Ephiny (26-38)
MATERNAL INSTINCTS And Amazon High (39-44)
What's It All About, Ephiny? (45-52)
LES CONTEMPTIBLES (53-58)
Hercules Episode (59-63)
Dealing With Fandom (64-67)
Working On Xena (68-71)
A Life Apart From Xena? Say It Ain't So! (72-83)
Topless Women Revisited (84-95)
An Interview With Danielle Cormack
Topless Women
BRET RUDNICK:
[01] Is this a good time for you?DANIELLE CORMACK:
[02] Yes, it is, actually. It's very early in the morning here, and I've just got back from overseas promoting a film I've just done. So if it's convenient with you, it's fine with me.RUDNICK:
[03] Yes, that would be great! I know you've recently been to Cannes with a film. What was the film?CORMACK:
[04] I just made a film, a low-budget feature, [hesitantly] called Topless Women Talk About Their Lives (Harry Sinclair , 1997). (laughs)
A "Topless" production still.
Left to right, Willa O'Neill (Prue), Tania Simon, and Danielle Cormack (Liz) in a wig!The film has received critical acclaim and features other Xena: Warrior Princess alumni Ian Huges [Diomedes in BLACK WOLF (#11) and Melas in CALLISTO ) (#22)], Willa O'Neill [Lila in SINS OF THE PAST THE past (#01) and THE PRODIGAL (#18)], Andrew Bimms [Hippocrates in IS THERE A DCOTOR IN THE HOUSE (#24)], and Joel Tobeck [Strife in JUDGEMENT DAY (H#52)].
RUDNICK:
[05] Ah, now if I've done my research properly, this is something that came out of a series of short subjects on New Zealand television, is that right?CORMACK:
[06] [a smile in her voice] Yes, yes it was. Due to the fact I was pregnant in real life and thought that I was going to lose my job, I approached the director and said, "Look, I'm pregnant, what does this mean?" Instead of firing me he decided to take it a step further and turn it into a feature film. We applied to the Film Commission of New Zealand, and lo and behold, it is now on the big screen! So I've just come back from Cannes, via London and the United States and I'm back in New Zealand promoting Topless for its New Zealand release and debut.
Another "Topless" production still.
Danielle Cormack's character, Liz, was pregnant, as was Danielle in "real life" at the time.
RUDNICK:
[07] Has it been well received? Have people said good things about it?CORMACK:
[08] Yes, they have, actually. They've been really positive. It's the story of a group of dysfunctional friends and their encounters with the absurdities of contemporary life.RUDNICK:
[09] What we would call here "slice of life"?CORMACK:
[10] A very quirky slice of life. It's billed as a drama that is occasionally funny. My character, Liz, is pregnant. She's a solo mother and it's about how she deals with her pregnancy and what predicaments she comes up against and so on.
High Tide
HIGH TIDE provided needed work for a lot of actors,
but many would rather forget about the experience.
RUDNICK:
[11] I've been doing a bit of reading and prior to Xena weren't you also in a television show called High Tide (1994-1996)?CORMACK:
[12] [laughs quite a lot] Can we wipe that one off the record?RUDNICK:
[13] [laughs]CORMACK:
[14] Yes, they filmed that down here in New Zealand. I don't think there was much happening down here at the time so it was a good opportunity for some actors to do some work. I never even saw what I did on it. It wasn't a particularly enjoyable experience for me, to say the least.RUDNICK:
[15] Oh, really?CORMACK:
[16] Only because the scripts were really bad. It was work I didn't really believe in.RUDNICK:
[17] I see.CORMACK:
[18] It was tacky.... *bad* story lines. [laughs]RUDNICK:
[19] I have seen clips from the series, but unfortunately none with you in them. I've seen a few with Kevin Smith and Lucy Lawless, though.CORMACK:
[20] You get the idea. It was good for a lot of New Zealand actors to get some work.
Early Career
Every country has its popular soaps, and in New Zealand, it's SHORTLAND STREET.
RUDNICK:
[21] Prior to that, had you done mainly stage work?CORMACK:
[22] Yeah, heaps of stage work. I got started in stage and from that got into TV work. I've done a couple of short films here as well. I worked on a New Zealand soap for a year which was my major stepping stone to television and film work.RUDNICK:
[23] The soap that you did, was that Gloss (1987-1989)?CORMACK:
[24] You do do your homework!! That's true, Gloss was my first big TV job. Then I worked on a show that's still running called Shortland Street (1992- ). I started on that as part of the original cast in 1992. I worked on that for a year and then got out. It was a soap. After a year I just wasn't interested in staying. I felt I learned all I could from that particular format -- soaps. Then I went and did a play by Steven Berkoff called East (1994), which we ended up touring over to the Zurich International Art Festival, and we toured it around New Zealand as well.RUDNICK:
[25] And then ultimately we get to the part that I'm sure most of the people reading now are keen to hear about and that's your appearances on Xena.
Getting The Role Of Ephiny
The character Ephiny was firmly established in the Xenaverse
by A NECESSARY EVIL (#38), first season.
CORMACK:
[26] Yes!! [excitement in her voice] I'm actually about to go do another episode next week, as Ephiny [MATERNAL INSTINCTS]. At first I had auditioned for a number of roles on Hercules and Xena about six or seven times, as have most Auckland actors. [laughs] I thought obviously I wasn't what they were looking for because I didn't get those parts. Then I went for an audition for a role they weren't sure what I was going to be playing, so they gave me some old scripts. There was some talk that it might be a continuing character. When the time came I read a character that had already been shown on Xena, so it was a bit disconcerting not knowing what was going on. But they obviously liked what I did, hence... Ephiny!RUDNICK:
[27] Do you recall which character it was you read for that had already been shown?CORMACK:
[28] [thinks] I can't remember.RUDNICK:
[29] So you read for this character but never actually appeared as this particular character.CORMACK:
[30] No, Ephiny hadn't been written yet. Well, they didn't give me the script for Ephiny anyway. So I didn't have any idea what character I was really supposed to be playing. I had to go through several character portrayals at the reading and one of those was Ephiny.RUDNICK:
[31] So were you able to give the character any kind of direction to go in?CORMACK:
[32] The story and subtext was already heavily written, the one for Ephiny. The first episode when she was an Amazon b*tch, that was already there, really. But now she's transformed, having gone through giving birth and all that. She's changed quite drastically.RUDNICK:
[33] I have to tell you that at least in the United States, Ephiny is an extremely popular character.CORMACK:
[34] [laughs] That's so hard for me to believe because down here, no one even knows I'm on that show!RUDNICK:
[35] Up here there's also a phenomenon known as "fan fiction" where fans write their own stories about the characters they like that can't or won't be shown on regular episodes. Ephiny is about the third or fourth most popular character that appears. She strikes a chord with a lot of people.CORMACK:
[36] I'm really quite honored to hear that!
Ephiny was glad Gabrielle chose to stay around
in THE QUEST (#37).
RUDNICK:
[37] She's a very, very popular character. And you say you're just about to do another appearance?CORMACK:
[38] Yes, yes. I did one brief scene on Hercules as Ephiny. I don't know if that's been shown yet. I suspect not. But it made me realize that she's getting more established. She's crossing over now. Sounds a bit like cross-dressing, doesn't it? [laughs] Now Ephiny is going back to help out with Gabrielle and Xena. She's [Ephiny] with child now, of course, and Queen of the Amazons, so she's got a lot on her plate.
MATERNAL INSTINCTS And Amazon High
RUDNICK:
[39] What can you tell us about the episode you're going to be in?CORMACK:
[40] My role in the next appearance is to help Gabrielle. This episode has Callisto in it as well, so you can imagine it's going to be very intense. Callisto comes back, and so Ephiny is rounding up children and helping Gabrielle. My role is to be a really good friend of Gabrielle's now. And an ally with Xena.RUDNICK:
[41] We've been hearing a lot about Amazons and such lately, especially with a new series being proposed, Amazon High?.CORMACK:
[42] Oh, you know about that? Is that what it is called?!RUDNICK:
[43] Yes, we had heard about it on the quiet, but recently it was made public at a convention.CORMACK:
[44] I was approached by Rob Tapert about that overseas. It was a social situation and I sort of laughed it off and went on my merry way. It's been my experience in the industry not to start making noises about things until you have a contract in front of you. But it sounds interesting. So we'll see. [Author's note: Ms. Cormack did indeed sign a contract and will be in the pilot Amazon High that Renaissance is shooting in New Zealand from 8 September to 19 October.]
What's It All About, Ephiny?
Although she is kinder and gentler since she first appeared in HOOVES AND HARLOTS (#10),
Ephiny can still kick b*tt, as evinced in this scene
from A NECESSARY EVIL (#38).
RUDNICK:
[45] You've played Ephiny a few times now and as you've pointed out the character has evolved over time. What have you been able to bring to the character yourself or what, if anything, do you yourself find poignant about the character?CORMACK:
[46] The foremost thought I have, is, that I'm now a mother. And so is Ephiny. I know how much it can affect a woman, after having had a child. Things seem to become clearer as to why you're here. Also, you soften up a lot, and that's what happened to Ephiny. It was great to be able to have played a hard-*ss*d woman who was incredibly one-sighted, who has now been able to incorporate the antithesis of that into her personality. All she could see at one time was wanting to be Queen -- she was supposed to have had the Right of Caste and she didn't get it. Gabrielle and Xena showed her there was more than that, then having a child with someone who was supposed to be the enemy -- all her ideals have completely flipped around.[47]Personally, that sort of thing has happened to me as well. Of course, Ephiny and I are extremely different. I don't run around leather clad for one. [both laugh] And of course the character and myself are from different ages. But Ephiny has undertaken a journey I feel very close to as well. Having said that, though, I'd like to see her toughen up again. Recently it's been relatively easy for Ephiny, she's had all these wonderful times with Gabrielle and helping out. I'd really her to come up against something where she feels torn between choices, to face another dilemma where she's divided.
[48]What I like about the Xena programme is that everyone has got an evil side or evil past they're trying to battle. For Ephiny, it was really predominant in the first episode, it was there. She was greedy and was willing to sacrifice anything to get what she wanted.
RUDNICK:
[49] I did get the impression from between HOOVES AND HARLOTS (#10) and IS THERE A DOCTOR IN THE HOUSE (#24) that Ephiny had come to the conclusion getting that kind of power wasn't all it was cracked up to be.CORMACK:
[50] Exactly. She realized after she had a child that you have to be fair. It's not just about ruling and having power. It's about being fair and equal. You can't just sit on the throne and order everyone around for your own benefit.
Some call it the "flag" scene, others the "midriff" scene,
but whatever the case, it's a pivotal part
of THE QUEST (#37).
RUDNICK:
[51] I was re-watching THE QUEST (#37) the other day and there's that scene between Ephiny and Gabrielle where Ephiny is explaining why the future is important and such -- very much as you have just done. I am hoping to see more of that as time goes on.CORMACK:
[52] In this episode coming up there's a lot of that. Ephiny is really supporting Gabrielle and making decisions. There's a point where Xena is at a loss and Ephiny is the one who comes along and says "Come on, let's go." Because Ephiny has helped Xena and Gabrielle out, and they keep crossing paths, there's more of an opportunity for these types of scenes, which is better than just running around beating up people... well nearly!
LES CONTEMPTIBLES
It's a different hair style than we are used to seeing,
but Danielle Cormack does indeed play The Chartreuse Fox/Lady Marie.
RUDNICK:
[53] Apart from your appearances on Xena it was also great to see you in the Hercules episode, LES CONTEMPTIBLES (#H53), as the "Chartreuse Fox". Personally, I very much enjoyed that and it looked like you were having great fun with it.CORMACK:
[54] Oh, thank you! Yes, it was great fun to work with Michael Hurst and Kevin Sorbo. Charlie Haskell, a New Zealand director, directed that episode. It was the first time I had worked with Kevin, and Michael and I just wreaked havoc on the set. I got to be so over the top! I really liked how my accent on the first day we shot (keeping in mind we shoot out of sequence) sounded really German and then I manage to morph into French. I was actually very multi-lingual that day. [both laugh][55]I loved playing something where I could go over the top like that. I loved playing a character that was, in fact, playing another character. The Chartreuse Fox was playing Lady Marie. For the fencing bits we had a really intense course in how to use the swords, and that was great. That experience as a guest lead for that episode really whetted my appetite to go back and do more as Ephiny. So far Ephiny has been coming in for one scene or two scenes and I hope that more can be done with the character.
RUDNICK:
[56] I'm sure many people watching that Hercules episode were hoping for an Ephiny connection in there somewhere. After all, it was implied that the two characters Michael and Kevin were playing were descendants of Iolaus and Hercules, so why not a descendent of Ephiny in there as well?CORMACK:
[57] You don't think that would confuse people?RUDNICK:
[58] The "Xenaverse" itself can be pretty confusing at times, but I think people would get the idea. [both laugh]
Another familiar recurring XENA cast member, Robert Trebor, looks on in the background.
Hercules Episode
CORMACK:
[59] About five episodes after LES CONTEMPTIBLES (#H53), Ephiny does make an appearance, in one scene, with her son, Xenon. It's the one where Hercules has trouble with Amazons, Amazons of an ugly nature that do horrible things to a young blind boy. In this episode I'm the token good Amazon. Kevin and I talked about putting a look in there like "Have I seen you somewhere before?" [both laugh]RUDNICK:
[60] This must be something going to be shown in the new season, because I certainly don't remember that as you described it.CORMACK:
[61] Really? Once again, I'm so out of touch with what season they're on and all that. I just have fun doing the work and don't take any notice of the administrative side, except my call times!RUDNICK:
[62] When did you film that episode?CORMACK:
[63] [thinks] It would have been about two months ago.
Dealing With Fandom
RUDNICK:
[64] Have you found that people recognize you more out in the world since your Xena/Hercules appearances?CORMACK:
[65] Not in New Zealand. I've done some other things that I am more recognizable from. Because it's on at a really unsociable time here, people don't really stay at home to watch it. But in the States, I had a few people look at me awkwardly, but I didn't realize until my partner said something. I just thought "Oh, I look strange." [both laugh][66] It's very difficult for me to be objective about that or relate to it because I feel so distant from it. You guys, all of "Ephiny's" fans -- are up there, and no one really knows about me down here playing Ephiny. The distance is causing me to be really relaxed about it. [laughs] But please thank everyone for being interested in Ephiny.
[67] Now I've got more of a grasp on the genre of Xena as well. It's a new thing to actors down here. People here would consider what is on Xena as extreme overacting, but it's genre and that its style and how the programme works. If it wasn't like that, it wouldn't work. I'm slowly but surely learning about the energy that's required to make things work on Xena and Hercules. You've got to really take it to a different style. I'm still getting my mouth around the American accent.
Creative and fun seem to best describe the working environment on the XENA set.
Working On Xena
RUDNICK:
[68] I don't think anyone has had any complaints. [both laugh]. That seems to be the case in general. Sure, it's a show made in New Zealand with quite a large number of local people in it, but apart from the fact that the landscape is a little different and sometimes the people look a little different, it doesn't often make itself obvious.CORMACK:
[69] The fact it's set in a different time in a kind of fantasy environment certainly helps. [laughs]RUDNICK:
[70] And the other thing I've noticed too is that everyone I've talked to so far has such a tremendously good time while they're working. Is this your experience as well?CORMACK:
[71] Absolutely! I've only ever left the set and said "Wow, that is just so much fun!" It seems to be the case in a lot of projects made in New Zealand. People usually have fun along the way. Creative energy doesn't get squashed that way. With Xena and Hercules, these people have been working together for months, so they have to get on. It'd be a nightmare if they didn't.
A Life Apart From Xena? Say It Ain't So!
RUDNICK:
[72] Do you have any other projects you're working on lately? Obviously being a new mum you've already got a full schedule. [both laugh]CORMACK:
[73] Apart from Xena, no, other than I'm helping with promotion of the new film. I think I've got a bit of theater happening at the end of the year but we'll see. I want to spend a bit of time with my family. There's always something happening. If I feel there's a void in my career I'll write something. I've written a couple of plays that have been put on down here.RUDNICK:
[74] What sort of things do you write?CORMACK:
[75] Not for mainstream market. They probably wouldn't be accepted. One of them was a horror play, a black comedy. Another one I've done is about a relationship/love triangle comedy.RUDNICK:
[76] Is writing something you'd like to do more of career-wise?CORMACK:
[77] Not especially. It's mainly something I do for personal satisfaction. I do plays and scripts for television. I have my own sort of personal script catalogue that I doubt will ever come to light. But I do like to express myself and for me that's usually best done by acting.RUDNICK:
[78] So acting is really more your first love and the thing you want to do most.CORMACK:
[79] Yes, definitely.RUDNICK:
[80] Is it a very small community down there, acting-wise? It seems like many people know each other pretty well.CORMACK:
[81] It's getting bigger. The people that are working now are making a living at it, and that community is quite small, I think. Having said that, though, Xena and Hercules are providing a lot of work for people, not just actors but crews and production staff. Unlike places such as Los Angeles or New York or London where every other person you meet is an actor, here it's much more of a unique career.[82] For myself, I don't do anything other than acting. That's how I make my living. I don't have to be a waitress or do anything else. I'm touching wood as I say this. [laughs] But it also depends on how versatile you are. I do stage and voice work, as well as film and television. I've dabbled in all areas, so I feel quite confident in all areas. It's easier for me to get work, whereas some people will only do TV or some people will only do stage.
RUDNICK:
[83] So it's easy for you to keep busy then.
Topless Women Revisited
TWTATL was a project was something started by people between projects that later grew to a major project itself.
CORMACK:
[84] It is easy -- I find it's easy. I certainly don't have any complaints. I've never been one to sit back and complain about the state of the industry anyway. If I get to a point where I don't see any work coming for a few months, that's when I sit down and write something with a group of people that might not be doing anything at the time. That's exactly how Topless Women Talk About Their Lives started.RUDNICK:
[85] That was born out of a situation where people were between projects?CORMACK:
[86] Exactly. There was a director and three other actors that didn't have anything to do. So we did it to do something and we did it for free. Look what it evolved into! Anyone who sits back and just complains about no work, no money, no finance, to me is just lazy. [laughs]RUDNICK:
[87] I know that Topless was originally a series of very short subjects, about four minutes or so. How did you find that translated to a feature film?CORMACK:
[88] That's interesting, because a lot of people have asked me that, obviously. It's an interesting idea to think that you can string together four minute episodes. When we first started they were quite unique. Each one was not necessarily linked to the next one. Then we found that some of the episodes were flowing over into the next one, and some of the characters were really establishing themselves -- becoming quite quirky and interesting characters.[89] We did fifteen episodes and the Film Commission became interested and said they liked them and were going to put them on television. We decided that a series of linked vignettes would work. Some of the stuff that's in there is completely unrelated to the rest of the film. But it makes it interesting, and I think that's why people find it really refreshing, because it's not predictable. It's not your average "boy-meets-girl", "girl-gets-pregnant", "girl-decides-to-go-it-on-her-own" and live happily ever after. It goes off on all these intersecting tangents.
RUDNICK:
[90] I think that has a lot in common with people today, in a complex society. Life doesn't always go in straight lines for people.CORMACK:
[91] Yes, absolutely. I was especially pleased to see when we showed it in Cannes, even though it's a film that is quintessentially New Zealand, it still was received really well internationally. Everyone related to it. That was our greatest fear, that simply because people laughed in New Zealand it didn't mean the rest of the world was going to understand it. But in actual fact they related to other things we had missed as viewers in New Zealand. That was really encouraging.RUDNICK:
[92] It seems to be a trend that films from New Zealand are received well, certainly critically, here in the United States.CORMACK:
[93] What I was made aware of in Cannes was that people were interested in the film, not only because of the very alluring title [laughs], but simply because it originated in New Zealand. I think that down here we're very harsh judges, and you can't get away with your everyday "Been there done that" love story or anything like that. People here find it very difficult to sit down and relate to that. So you either need to do something really off the wall, or something that's just really new and fresh for people to accept it and for it to receive acclaim.RUDNICK:
[94] Well, I've about exhausted my questions for the moment. Once again, thank you very much for your time.CORMACK:
[95] You're welcome, my pleasure. I'm sure we'll talk again.
One more "Topless" production still for the road.
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