Beginning Pleasantries (01-12)
Post-Production Process (13-18)
Film Orientation (19-23)
Growing Complexities (24-32)
Technology (33-42)
Creativity Involved (43-49)
Sound Effects (50-57)
Background (58-68)
Triumphs (69-78)
The Third Season (79-86)
The Internet (87-90)

Beginning Pleasantries

BRET RUDNICK:
^[01] [Gives his Whoosh! spiel and tells what the magazine is all about.] Has anyone told you about us?

BERNADETTE JOYCE:
^[02] I know what it is and in fact was looking at it over the weekend. I printed out your Xena encyclopedia -- that was pretty wild. [laughs]

RUDNICK:
^[03] We hope if anything, people get something out of the magazine that they enjoy.

JOYCE:
^[04] It is great. Needless to say, the title of the magazine is about my favourite.

RUDNICK:
^[05] That is very nice to hear. I will pass that along to my boss, Kym Taborn.

JOYCE:
^[06] Does that mean you guys are big fans of our "whooshes" [made by the chakram]?

RUDNICK:
^[07] Absolutely! [both laugh] I am told there was someone in the process of counting the number of "bounces" in various chakram scenes to determine the most number of ricochets in any given "toss".

Counting chakram richochets is a past-time for some, a job for others.

JOYCE:
^[08] They should wait until next season. We have got a show called BEEN THERE, DONE THAT and one shot has 21 chakram hits.

RUDNICK:
^[09] Oh, my! [laughs]

JOYCE:
^[10] It is like a pinball game.

RUDNICK:
^[11] I notice that your "credit" is Coordinating Producer, is that right?

JOYCE:
^[12] Correct.

Post-Production Process

Poseidon, incarnation no. 1.

RUDNICK:
^[13] Is it accurate to say you supervise everything from the post-production end?

JOYCE:
^[14] Correct.

RUDNICK:
^[15] So from the editing process onwards, to sound and special effects, you are the person who is responsible for seeing all that gets done?

JOYCE:
^[16] Yes.

RUDNICK:
^[17] Is there anything like a "typical" process that you follow? How does it work?

JOYCE:
^[18] By now we are on auto-pilot. Basically, we get the dailies in [film from New Zealand just shot]. They transfer the negative in New Zealand and they send us up editing tapes and master tapes. We have two editors on each series, two on Xena and two on Hercules. They alternate shows. They will get the dailies. These shows are really big shows because we probably have about double the film shot normally with a series. We have anywhere from six to nine days of first unit, and then we have anywhere from three or four days to two or three weeks of second unit. This is why our action sequences and effects sequences have the scope that they have and the depth that they have, because it is almost the equivalent of shooting a little feature on each episode.

Film Orientation

Special effects details help make for a big-screen feel. Here is the blind cyclops
from SINS OF THE PAST (#01)

RUDNICK:
^[19] I have noticed, in talking to some people who work on the show, the experience they bring is very cinematic, very film oriented, as opposed to "just" television experience.

JOYCE:
^[20] That is the approach we take with each episode. Each of them is an individual and unique feature. Sam Raimi and Rob Tapert are from the feature world as opposed to the TV world. When I started working with them, I was very lucky to be able to schedule and budget the shows as small feature. That is the approach I take with the pictures and the sound is that each one of these are little individual features as opposed to TV shows. We do whatever we can to make it look as much like a film as possible.

^[21] We do that with minor details too, from giving the opening credits a "filmic" look by making them slightly grainier than video. This way they are not as sleek and smooth as video. Soundwise we do all kinds of things to make them sounds like features. Picturewise, same thing. We will try to open them up and add big establishing shots -- some of our second unit will go out and shoot huge mountain shots or panning shots, something to open the shows up and give them scope, as opposed to a claustrophobic TV show.

RUDNICK:
^[22] Over the first two seasons, I have not seen any drastic changes in the way the prologue is put together. Is that trend going to continue to season three?

JOYCE:
^[23] Yes, we are most likely going to keep them the same. The only thing we have done differently is we have given Renee O'Connor a main title card in the second season of Xena. In the shows Michael Hurst appears in (on Hercules: The Legendary Journeys) we gave him a card in the main title. Those are really the only changes. We have gone back and forth on whether we should update them or not. The thinking seems to be if you update them, then when you go into reruns or syndication the old main titles will seem very dated.

A card of her own.

Growing Complexities

RUDNICK:
^[24] I have noticed too that your workload must be pretty substantial because you supervise post-production on the Hercules side as well as the Xena side, is this correct?

JOYCE:
^[25] Correct. It is a massive volume of work, no doubt about it, between the two series. The number of visual effects we have creates havoc on post-production. The second unit wreaks havoc on our schedule because of the way the editing is set up.

^[26] The way the editing system is set up, the editors will get the dailies in, they will do their cut, a director will come in and work with them for, say, three or four days. Then the producers will put their two cents in. Then they are ready for the dailies of the next episode to come in. But when you have a show that has, say, two weeks of second unit shooting, I can literally have an editor that has dailies coming in from two different shows at the same time. It is OK when you are not on the air, but when you are delivering a show every week to get on the air it gets wild.

RUDNICK:
^[27] Is it right to say that about this time of year [hiatus] you have a little more time to work on some of the more complex shows?

JOYCE:
^[28] Yes. It works out pretty good, because the first ten episodes that we do, we start early in the year. That gives us a head start to get those shows ready for November sweeps and February sweeps. Those tend to be our heaviest effects shows. So it gives the effects guys time which they dearly need to get the effects ready. Then the second ten get a little crunchier, and by the time we get into May sweeps it is just ridiculous. [both laugh]

RUDNICK:
^[29] I have noticed over time that, especially in Xena, the effects have gotten more and more complicated. Is that because the budget for effects has gotten bigger or does it reflect that over this period of time people have become familiar with what they have to do and can do more faster?

JOYCE:
^[30] It is a combination of those things. The more effects that you do and see that they work, the more you want to do. So we managed to have more in the second year. My guess is that the third year will be somewhat heavy in visual effects. It does help us to tell the stories and people like to watch effects. They are interesting.

RUDNICK:
^[31] The incidental music and sounds really add much as well. Sometimes there is a "trademark", if you will, in various scenes for various moods.

JOYCE:
^[32] That is one of the fun things about these shows, is that they really lend themselves to post production. We are lucky because the film we get from production down in New Zealand allows us to really get creative in post production. It gives us so many opportunities to add gags and visual effects and sound effects. It is amazing, the difference in the shows from when you cut dailies together to the finished product. I get calls from directors all the time who say "I can't believe the show turned out as well as it did. Thanks so much." It starts with the footage we get, and we just elaborate on what they give us. It really is a lot of fun to add our two cents in in post production.

Technology

Poseidon, incarnation no. 2.

RUDNICK:
^[33] I know as regards technology things can really change over time, and quickly. How does this affect what you have to do? I am thinking specifically of an example from the episode ULYSSES (#43). There, the animated Poseidon in the episode was very different from the one we have seen in the opening titles. How much attention do you have to pay to changing technology and how much trouble might that cause you from time to time?

JOYCE:
^[34] Actually, I try to stay ahead of technology. I think we succeed. In the case of Poseidon it was an artistic choice, as opposed to a technology change. Both the way we do our visual effects and the way we do our sound, we are way ahead of anybody else in town. We try and stay that way. Visual effects is constantly testing, experimenting, and getting software programs written for them. Just so we can stay ahead of the game. It is the only way to survive in this business, to keep ahead of everybody.

^[35] Same thing with sound. We are so far ahead of any other facility in town, as far as the way we mix our shows. I have toured many, many facilities, and there is nothing that comes close to the way we do our shows. We do not even use tape any more, it is all hard drives and disk drives networked through the system at our sound facility. Our music is composed in Detroit and sent to us through ISDN lines. In a normal mixing studio all of your cue sheets are hand-written. Ours are all on computers. If you walk onto our sound stage you will see a wall of a bank of computers where every other facility basically uses a mixing board. We have access to over a million sound effects just right there on our main stage.

RUDNICK:
^[36] Do you find that keeping up this way in the long run is also perhaps more cost-effective?

JOYCE:
^[37] Absolutely. Again, we mix our shows as if it was a feature. We could not get the same sound with the same versatility on our schedule at another facility. We can create effects right there on the stage as we are mixing in no time at all, as opposed to many other places where you have to go to the back room and edit. There is absolutely no limit to what we can do on the stage other than our imagination.

RUDNICK:
^[38] So, it is a big time factor savings as well.

JOYCE:
^[39] Yes, and time is money. One of my biggest frustrations is I do mix these shows as if they are features, but unfortunately a lot of the broadcasting stations and studios limit me to twenty-year-old technology. So the way the shows are mixed and what you guys hear on the air are two totally different versions. The shows on the air are so compressed, that if they were to put these shows out on LaserDisc or digital, you would not believe the sound. When people come to our soundstage, everything is dubbed in SurroundSound. We have got shows where you can hear the chakram through 360 degrees. All kinds of stuff we put in that you just do not hear at home. I am really looking forward to the new digital technology that is going to be coming out. That will give us the range to broadcast the shows the way they are mixed. Both with audio and video, we stay digital all along the chain of post-production. We never lose anything in a transfer.

RUDNICK:
^[40] I can imagine that would bring a whole new dimension to it.

JOYCE:
^[41] I cannot wait -- I wish it was in effect today! [laughs]

RUDNICK:
^[42] Speaking of LaserDiscs and such, do you know if there are any plans for episodes to come out on disks or tape?

JOYCE:
^[43] I have no idea. Unfortunately, that's one area I do not hear about. There are so many aspects to these shows, often I am the last to hear, being post-production. [laughs] It is possible, but I have not heard of anything.

Creativity Involved

A Dryad's image is reflected in Xena's eye
in GIRLS JUST WANNA HAVE FUN (#28).
These are details you do not find in many other shows.

RUDNICK:
^[44] Do you find that you have a lot of freedom to many different things? Or are you fairly restricted by a script or set of instructions as to what people specifically want?

JOYCE:
^[45] You do have a script to use as a guideline. It helps us tremendously in knowing a lot of things -- where to add wild lines and that sort of thing. But at the same time, we are so blessed to have Rob Tapert at the head of the helm, because he really does let everybody, production and post-production and pre-production, do what they do best. We take risks and we take chances, we get creative and sometimes it works and sometimes it does not. He really allows us to grow all the time. If we make a mistake it is like "Well, don't do that again" -- he does not get out of whack if we do something that does not work out, although most of the time we only do something we are pretty sure is going to work. Talk to anybody on the show and they will say the same thing. We are allowed to take the ball and run with it.

RUDNICK:
^[46] It has been very interesting in that everyone I have spoken to so far who works on the show, at every level, is really, really happy to be working on such a project. They say it is a great environment, very supportive, which is something you do not always find in television. That really comes through in the finished product.

JOYCE:
^[47] It is a labour of love for everybody. It is about the nicest group of people I have ever worked with -- a very trusting group of individuals. It really is conducive to being creative and having fun. That is a big, important approach that we take. We kind of do these shows with the wink of an eye. We just have fun with them, and you are right, you can see up on screen that everyone really loves what they are doing and applies themselves as best they can to make the show as good as they can.

RUDNICK:
^[48] In watching all the episodes from all the seasons so far, there has been a growth in characters and in stories, and in the way things are done in general. It is a very comfortable, almost family-like atmosphere that comes through.

JOYCE:
^[49] It really is.

Sound Effects

RUDNICK:
^[50] When you are doing your post-production work, do you do the sound and effects on the premises or are there other people you use for that?

JOYCE:
^[51] We contract out to a company called Digital Sound and Pictures across town from us. I have been doing business with these people since another series I did before I started Hercules. They are brilliant. In fact we are gloating today because we got four nominations that just came in for the International Monitor Awards. Best Series and Best Editing on the first Callisto episode, and two audio awards, one for the Callisto episode and one for the main title. And we just recently won a Golden Reel award which we are really proud of because we were up against very competitive shows like ER (1994-), X-Files (1993-), and High Incident (1996-) and about seven other shows, including Hercules, one of our own. So not only are we winning awards now, but we have created a style on each of these series that we like a lot.

^[52] The people at Digital are kind of part of the family, and they have the same attitude as we do as far as being able to create, and they really give us much more than we ever ask. I have to laugh, because the sound is so obvious on these shows. There is a saying around town -- we kind of take an "over the top" approach to our fights in both series.

^[53] Whenever we have a fight scene we have a group of people that we bring in to "sweeten" the fight with added sounds. Our head voice caster, Doug Stone, was telling me that when he listens at other sessions around town, they will ask if it is a Hercules fight or not Hercules fight. So we actually now have a label for our fights.

RUDNICK:
^[54] So now you are defined in the industry?

JOYCE:
^[55] Exactly, exactly. It is fun to see people take notice of "just" the sound on these shows. I attribute much of it to the people at Digital Sound and Picture. They are very, very good, and very creative. We try to give both Hercules and Xena their own unique sounds. I think we have succeeded in that. Each show is unique in its own way.

RUDNICK:
^[56] Well, we certainly know when the chakram is coming. That certainly has become a well defined icon in the series.

JOYCE:
^[57] Yes!

Background

The legend may have continued, but the second series did not. Fortunately, we got Ms. Joyce on XENA.

RUDNICK:
^[58] What has been your experience before coming to Hercules and Xena? What other shows have you worked on?

JOYCE:
^[59] Before Xena I did Hercules, both the movies and the series. I did a few "direct to video" movies for Renaissance, Darkman II (Bradford May, 1994) and Darkman III (Bradford May, 1996). Before that I did a series over at Warner Brothers called Kung-Fu: The Legend Continues (1992). Before that I was just freelancing, doing independent movies. I produced several "return" movies, I was known as the "Queen of the Return Movies" over at Universal. Return Of The Six Million Dollar Man (Ray Austin, 1987) and Return Of Sam McLeod (Alan J. Levi, 1989) were some of them. I did those in the eighties. I did the first series for FOX called Werewolf (1987-1988).

RUDNICK:
^[60] Yes! I remember that!

JOYCE:
^[61] I have done mainly TV.

RUDNICK:
^[62] Is this something you always wanted to do or did you just fall into it?

JOYCE:
^[63] I just fell into it. I met a producer who really liked me. I was a location manager and he promoted me to associate producer and would not do anything without me. He has since passed away. A lot of it was being in the right place at the right time. Now I really enjoy what I do. It is challenging.

RUDNICK:
^[64] I have noticed as far as producer credits go you are one of only two women producers on the show. The industry still is "male" oriented. Is this something you are conscious of, or is this something you just do not think about?

JOYCE:
^[65] I do not think about it. There are more than two women who do what I do. I actually have several friends that do what I do. It is kind of funny that I always wind up on the big action/adventure projects. [both laugh] Which is fine, because they are interesting and fun to do.

^[66] When I first started there were only one or two women doing this job. I think I was the first female location manager, that was a big hurdle to get over. But now there are quite a few women who do what I do.

RUDNICK:
^[67] So things are changing in that regard.

JOYCE:
^[68] Oh, definitely. It is really not an issue any more.

Triumphs

Clip bubbles form in limbo
in DESTINY (#36).
Xena fans can sympathize with the effects when they suffer XWS.

RUDNICK:
^[69] In the course of working on the series as you have done so far, do you have any particular memories or accomplishments, triumphs or tragedies, that stand out?

JOYCE:
^[70] As far as triumphs go, winning the Golden Reel was as if I had won an Oscar. It was one of the first awards the show received that I am aware of, and it was in the post-production area, which I am very proud of. And also because it was such serious competition. So I was really proud of that. It is very hard for a show of our genre to get nominated for anything. It is certainly next to impossible for a syndicated show to get nominated for anything. So that to me was very gratifying.

^[71] Watching the show go up in the ratings has been great. It is fun watching a lot of these imitators try to turn out shows that copy Hercules and Xena. I think we are still doing better than any of them. So there is definitely a lot of gratifying moments doing these episodes.

^[72] The other fun thing was the Xena/Hercules convention last January [in Burbank]. Sitting there watching two or three thousand people, going nuts, responding to your shows -- it is very strange. When you do TV, you do the shows, they go on the air, and you really do not know how people are reacting to them. That was a lot of fun, watching those people enjoy what we were doing.

RUDNICK:
^[73] There are more conventions coming up. Do you plan on attending any of those?

JOYCE:
^[74] I would like to. With me, it is a time thing. It is difficult to get out of town.

RUDNICK:
^[75] I imagine you are pretty swamped. I understand post-production works year round.

JOYCE:
^[76] I am very swamped. [laughs] I am taking a two week vacation shortly and that is about the only two weeks a year I get off. That I am looking forward to. But if there is any way I can make these conventions, I would love to, because they are really fun.

RUDNICK:
^[77] As far as individual episodes in either of the shows go, are there any particular moments that you are proud of, something where things really came together (or not)?

JOYCE:
^[78] You know, I am proud of all of the episodes. My favourites were the two Callisto episodes. And the episode DESTINY (#36), which I thought turned out beautifully. We have a couple of little bottle shows, which are comedies, which I absolutely adore. One of them is A DAY IN THE LIFE (#39), which Michael Hurst directed, and the other is BEEN THERE DONE THAT, which has not been on the air yet, but it is really a funny show.

The Third Season

Will Xena and Gabrielle be together much in Season 3? Stay tuned!

RUDNICK:
^[79] Brad Carpenter spoke a little about that at the Sacramento convention recently.

JOYCE:
^[80] Did he?

RUDNICK:
^[81] Yes, and I believe he showed a couple of pictures as well. He successfully "teased" us as to what was coming up.

JOYCE:
^[82] We are in post [production] on a trilogy that is going to blow everyone away when it comes on the air. Very, very powerful stuff.

RUDNICK:
^[83] We have heard some things about it, and without going into specifics or giving anything away, would you care to share anything or alert people as to what is coming up?

JOYCE:
^[84] No, I prefer people to watch and see for themselves. [both laugh] Lots of surprises.

RUDNICK:
^[85] Many people are holding their breath and will be watching with anticipation.

JOYCE:
^[86] There are going to be very strong, powerful episodes that I think everybody is going to enjoy.

The Internet

RUDNICK:
^[87] You mentioned earlier you were looking at Whoosh! on the Internet, do you do much Internet stuff yourself?

JOYCE:
^[88] Whenever I can. It is fun to read all the different feedback on the shows. Once in awhile we will even think of putting something in the show for the people on the Internet, just to stir the pot a little bit. But yes, I spend as much time as I can.

RUDNICK:
^[89] I know you are very busy and have a lot of work to get back to. Thank you very much for your time, I appreciate it.

JOYCE:
^[90] That is quite all right. It has been fun!